One of the reasons that HF's first album was such a success was down to it's rawness and the way in which ordinary people could identify with the lyrics in their own lives.

Album 2 was good, but perhaps a little too polished at times to have the same effect and widespread appeal.

For album 3 I'm hopeful of a return to what made the first album so good. In the past 2 years there's been plenty going on for the band to write about...

- the recession... Northern Rock etc.
- bankers bonuses
- people losing their jobs - particularly young people under 25 being unemployed
- houses being reposed
- Afghanistan getting worse and worse
- the violence at the recent West Ham/Millwall football match
- MPs expenses

I noticed Muse have done this with their new single "The Uprising" - there's a line about 'fat cats' which I'm guessing may refer to bankers.

No offence to you ochs but if the band are needing song ideas now then what have they been doing this past year?

This band need to comeback better and stronger, the last album was good but like you said a little too polished, the album wasn't promoted properly which is why some of the venues they were supposed to play got downgraded. They didn't tour for long enough and they never even went to the USA. The way they brought out ISO was clever but at the same time someone above them screwed it up, for a british band there just isn't any demand for them in the UK except for on here. They need to sort themselves out and fast or this will be their last album.

Much of that is just not true. Ddim. OUATITW was, as far as I could tell, the only album by any of the British headline-tour acts that were released that year that did not go into the HMV sale this summer. It's still selling at full price, and seemingly still selling. Similarly, In Operation you can only get cheap second hand and you can't get the indie CCTV for less than £40, which is impressive four-plus years after the fact and during recession.

It's hard for casual observers to predict what is going to happen with ticket sales and live music, but the trend seems to be that it is getting more and more important so the band will have to crack that nut but apart from that I think you're being simplistic.

Ochs, I rather think your list will be of more interest to journalists looking for new things to say about the band and their relevance. Otherwise we'll get the same old shorthand reference point cliches:
- Ali G
- Heathrow
- Antony & the Johnsons
- Kai's visa trouble
- Kai's rentokil past
- Brixton residency
- Mick Jones, Billy Bragg, Paul Weller

I'm sure I have missed a couple...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Sophisticaz,

If Hard-Fi wrote about things like you mentioned on the list Ochs, I'd begin to think they're just trying to please their fans, which is not what being in a band is about. The band have to do something their interested in or there's no point, I'm sure they'll always take fans opinions into consideration, but they have to move on. If you actually listen to the lyrics on OUATIT, there are songs about the streets on there, but I remember that's why alot of people got bored of them, because they kept talking about the same things. Believe it or not, in the modern world, not alot of people carry on talking about these things after they've been doing it for 2 albums. Rich did even admit with the first album they tried to come across as 'streetwise etc..' to fit in with the music at that time. No-one's talking about their streets anymore, people have been there done that. Even Noel Gallagher (who seems to have left the building btw) just began to think what was good and stop talking about being on the dole and ciggarettes, but he went on to write a true modern classic with with 'Falling Down' (which I actually consider as one of Oasis top 5 best songs) which is just more about human life in general. Hard-Fi will want to make an impact when they come back, with something that doesn't just relate to people in the UK, but something that relates to everyone in the world (i.e more general songs about love, relationships, sadness, happiness..) that's why Coldplay (like it or not) have done so well, and they still relate to everyone due to their songs not being so specific about the rising of house prices. It's a logical progression, even look at Arctic Monkeys (although the melodies on their new album aren't as good as their second album) they've still moved on and they're not talking about drinking the park with all they're little chav mates anymore. Why? because it gets repetative after two albums. The only way a band will ever progress is if thy move on, which is why I hope Hard-Fi come back with something more creative, different and relative to human life rather than just either a certain generation or people in a certain area of the world.
Another thing, the truth about America is that they like to believe everthing's ok. Maybe even to the point alot of them are delusional, which is why when people talk about things like tax rises in songs, they never get much airplay in America, because all the media in America, their job is to keep the sun shining even on the rainy days. So they'd never play things like that.
Also Ochs, what you said about Muse's new single, there can be alot of things that can mean. Fat Cats can very well mean anything that's lazy, they could be talking about the music industry today, which alot of bands end up writing about. There are certain 'universal' lines in songs that people write to make it sound like various things could be said, and depending on the listener's state of mind, will depend on their interpretation of the lyric.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: the star of cctv,

How about a song about the destruction of entire communities in the name of progress? With Sipson Village (a neighbour of Staines)under threat from being bulldozed to make way for Heathrow's third runway, it would be an excellent metaphor for many global issues. Greenpeace even built a mock up of the village at Glastonbury to highlight the problem.

For me, I think, the subject matter is not as important as the tone and the feeling of truthfulness in a song. The same as in any book, film or tv show that wants to be taken seriously. Thank heaven I have never had someone cheat on me and expect to be taken back, but Better Do Better is one of my all time favourite songs because it somehow cuts through to a pain and an anger and a feeling of exposure that I can relate to. Ditto Feltham and ditto Help Me Please. Again, thank heaven both my parents are still here but I can relate to the pain and isolation in Help Me Please. You mention Muse and Coldplay, and you can talk about U2 and even Radiohead up to a certain point. They write quite dramatic and image-heavy lyrics, but they are so vague that even though they are evocative, can also be pretty meaningless. What Rich's lyrics have proven masterful with is finding a universal thread in a specific, personal story, and I think that is why so many of us relate to the stories in Hard-fi songs.

There is a shift in tone and approach between CCTV and OUATITW, but it has a logical progression to it, they are still related. CCTV is about the yearning to get away, to escape. OUATITW is about having the balls or the desperation to make good that escape, but much more so about the dawning realisation that that there is a price, that escape only comes with a cost and that - pardon the cliché - you can never go home again.

If you take the songs on both albums in isolation there are personal and broader politics, sure. But the most successful ones, in my view, are about the more raw ones: frustration, boredom, anger, ambition, loss, love, desire and sex. From what was on the last podcast, Sweat sounds like another desire and sex one and I say bring it on. If there's no sex in it, it just ain't rock and roll.

Here, here.

As long as it's a natural progression from the previous two albums and it shows growth in the lyrics and music then all good.

Didn't someone once say if music be the food of love then play on? It certainly is!

quote:

Originally posted by Sophisticaz:
Much of that is just not true. Ddim. OUATITW was, as far as I could tell, the only album by any of the British headline-tour acts that were released that year that did not go into the HMV sale this summer. It's still selling at full price, and seemingly still selling. Similarly, In Operation you can only get cheap second hand and you can't get the indie CCTV for less than £40, which is impressive four-plus years after the fact and during recession.

It's hard for casual observers to predict what is going to happen with ticket sales and live music, but the trend seems to be that it is getting more and more important so the band will have to crack that nut but apart from that I think you're being simplistic.

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Hard-Fi could easily be one of the biggest bands in the UK (have you seen the competiton it should be a walk in the park for Hard-Fi) but due to laziness and some people on here who want to keep Hard-Fi a small band and don't want them to grow for one reason or another then it will never happen, I hope this wont be the last album they do but I have a feeling it might be. It is all down to them end of the day it's all about how much they want it and how hard they'll work for it.

agree with you on that , no competition as such .... but whatever you say you cannot doubt their passion , hard work and commitment .no way jose . Sophisticaz,you have a way with words , girlfriend.

also lets just let em get on with it . However much chinstroking goes on on this board , it ain't gonna change anything. it WILL be worth the wait ...

Deffo will be worth the wait and to be honest I'm past caring as long as they come out with another album I'll be a happy camper.

As for the keeping them a small band Ddim, I think we know what you're driving at. Let's face it you can't keep them an underground band for eternity unless you really are going to kidnap them. All I can say is guys don't lose that vision whatever it is, keep it in your minds eye and keep going. Don't listen to the yes men etc do what you feels best, be brave and take some chances and experiment if you need to. It all sounds good from where I'm sitting but I'm lying in bed with a cup of tea so that's a bit rose-tinted of me but you get the drift.

I can feel it in my arthritic bones, all will come good. Just one thing enough with the man jewellery and the hair has to be cut, God it REALLY has to be cut. Oh and more, much more Ross guitar solos, the man is a genius.

Ddim, I'm not saying you can't get it cheap - it's £2 in Fopp - but the point is that OUATITW is still selling at full price in HMV which is a barometer for a different segment of the market than Fopp and play.com. And, equally, in Fopp at least I haven't looked at play.com, the point is about what else is at low, low bargain prices - and the Arctics, the Foos, Kaisers, Kasabian, Muse, Bloc Party and RHCP and all the big crowd and critics pleasers are. So, what I'm saying is, it's really not as simple as you make out.

Plus, as for people on here wanting the band to stay small - whatever that means - I don't know what kind of super powers you are crediting us with but there are, what, at MOST a couple dozen of us who post regularly on here. What kind of influence do you really think we have?

@ madame fist: cheers, love.
@ weeg: you know that I wasn't a big lover of the new look and the quiff when first "unveiled", but I have to say I come around to them. What is with the top button done up on the Lacoste, though?

quote:

Originally posted by Sophisticaz:
Ddim, I'm not saying you can't get it cheap - it's £2 in Fopp - but the point is that OUATITW is still selling at full price in HMV which is a barometer for a different segment of the market than Fopp and play.com. And, equally, in Fopp at least I haven't looked at play.com, the point is about what else is at low, low bargain prices - and the Arctics, the Foos, Kaisers, Kasabian, Muse, Bloc Party and RHCP and all the big crowd and critics pleasers are. So, what I'm saying is, it's really not as simple as you make out.

For some reason in HMV you can get OUATITW for £15 (I get the feeling HMV forgot about Hard-Fi which is why that album is being sold at that price) which is strange considering you can get the latest albums for £8. Go on play.com and get it for £2.99. Simple.

quote:

Originally posted by Sophisticaz:
Plus, as for people on here wanting the band to stay small - whatever that means - I don't know what kind of super powers you are crediting us with but there are, what, at MOST a couple dozen of us who post regularly on here. What kind of influence do you really think we have?

Hard-Fi fans have super powers? You must be joking. Most of them are close to retirement

Like I said in my last post I said some people on here not everyone. Those people know who they are because they probably read it and wet themselves. Archer needs to sort it out and fast, I haven't got any brownie points at all and I don't intent on getting any either. I have noticed myself that alot of people don't post on here anymore (e.g. some of the 2005 lot) wonder why....

How can explain and give my opinion about the « futur » of Hard-fi ? (Hope it makes sense)
What you said all of you it’s true and interresting, but may be i can give a opinion from a « stranger ». I haven’t discovered Hard-Fi in England, but in my country with CCTV. When i listen to a song doesn’t matter the language, i’m listening to a lot of different kind of music, since i’m in London i’m going to a lot of differents gigs not only rock, depend of my mood, depend of what i’m looking for, it’s come from my education. Music doesn’t necessary needs words. If i don’t like the sound of a song i will never try to understand what the lyrics are. First of all it’s the sound. The sound of the voice and after the sound of the words. The mixte and match.
So why CCTV touched me and a lot of over one as me. Because their sound give me the desire to understand more the lyrics. Hard-fi has a « plus » a really good writer ☺. But it doens’t explain all, a lot of people want to « move one » somewhere, take a plane change their life, have the feeling that they are not conform to the place they live, hate their town and their street, and want (or dream) to escape. Everybody had bad trouble in love, are « afraid » to be in front of a the cash machine, who will said « no !! », want to have fun for the week-end blabla.. It’s universal, it’s life but with a « new » british sound, a « new » british atmosphere, a « new » perfum of London. British music is so rich, there is so much good music and bands, but Hard-fi are different. You can’t explain really why one artist touch you more than an over one, you can’t explain why you fall in love of someone, it’s the same with music.
I know nothing about the music industry, i’m rubbish ☹ what could happen to Hard-fi ? is it the last album? We don’t know. Wait and see. I always said that i love also Hard-Fi when they are doing differents things, over collaborations, (like Africa Express) and we don’t know what they have bring from their travel in USA, or Japan, or somewhere else, we know nothing we just have to wait. Create is the most hard work, it’s easier to criticise, (we are «fans» on the right side of the river!), but i would love that a lot of people on this world love Hard-Fi as much as us because they are brillants, differents and deserve it. Don’t know if they take care about our opinion, but we have our part of responsability in their sucess, we are here to help them to become number one because we are their fans, love them and believe in them. We will have a lot of work ☺
So come one men, we are waiting for you, we are ready, « We will rock the satellites! »